SAND SCENE

[dingobuggies]

Hi. I was just wondering if you guys could engage with me on some thoughts you may have on a new project I am doing early 2010. I am going to design a new sand rail to sell in either kit form or turn key but with a bit of a difference. it will be based on a mitsubishi Magna running gear such as the 2.6 four cyclinder right up to the 3.0 or 3.5 V6 which should be interesting. However, and here is the real twist, road legal. Might even make an option for full weather protection too. I have spoken with Queensland Transport and also the Federal office and it is going to be a bit of a paper trail but it can be done and you guys could order a box of parts, go find a rusty but running Magna and bolt it all together and go get it ROAD REGISTERED. I know a guy in the UK who did something similer called the Blitz Buggy. Some feedback would be great. Oh, it will be called the Dingo Buggy we think and the developmen t work will be done on North Stradbroke Island, one of the biggest sand islands in the world. Please let me know what you all think.

[shaihulud]

I think that's great idea. It's overdue for someone to make a road registered off road style buggy available. I've been thinking about how it could be done for years.

I'm sure that you are aware of the Australian Design Rules and the problems associated with Individually Constructed Vehicle. That of course will be your major obstacle.

I think that it might be a good idea to contact the people who make Caterham copies of the old Lotus 7 and also the people who make copies of the old AC Cobra. They must have some arrangement with the regulators to be able to make new chassis that are acceptable.

It's my understanding that there is a complete ban on new welded pipe framed chassis, somewhere in the ADRs, but I can't get my computer to read my copy of the ADRs to check that. If so, how do they get around that?

Maybe even speak to the Hot Rodders as they have a special arrangement that makes it possible for them to build new cars on copies of old pre-1948 chassis.

You may have to make several test chassis that will be able to be tested to destruction for torsional, bending, roll over and side intrusion strength.

I think that it would be better to make the frame yourself. Then you know that it's done correctly. I don't think that it's a good idea to sell a kit of loose pipes as it is impossible to control the quality of the welding and alignment by other people and it must be done properly.

As I'm sure you are aware, one of the reasons why short wheelbase dune buggies are so unpopular with the registration authorities, world wide, is that when they were new many were not welded together well and they had a well deserved reputation for being badly built.

Go for it. I hope that you succeed.

[Manxmark]

Shaihulud has pretty much covered it. Sounds really interesting. I would be interested in one if you could make them street legal. I'd be interested to see what they are going to look like too. It has too look cool.
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[dingobuggies]

Well, it is basically going to look like the traditional sand rail and there will be a provision to make them water tight too, or at least weather proof, and it will essencially be a copy of the same thing, big rear and little front wheels but the difference will be fuel injected, modern mechanics, water cooled and coil over fron shocks. The plan is to use engine, gearbox, gear linkage (which on the magna is really good and simple to fit, even with woving engine location) instruments, wiring harness, brakes (from front to rear) and the front hubs may be Mitsubish van front one's. to keep the PCD the same. I plan to make these as fully welded but with a boltable section for shipping, maybe but not sure if it is worht it and to simply fully weld them up. I would prefure to as you say, it keeps quality. I will sell the first batch without the road legal stuff first as they will make a good race buggy if you choose the V6 option. I will see if I can upload a picture of the thing in a few weeks when I have finished the designs on 3D CAD but for now, I am sure you get the idea but I want to make something that will look good, be easy to make and above all, be tough enough to roll a bit and still get you home to slap a bit of paint on to cover the damage. You know, a real Aussi build thing. Tough as a rock, looks cool, not complicated but great fun. Thanks for the feedback and please keep it coming. I want to get this right and I want to put weld to metal about March 2010.

[shaihulud]

I don't want to complicate the issue, but I think that if you could make the frames in three sizes that fully comply with the ADRs, CAMS and the Off Road Racing specifications then you will have covered all of the bases.

Complying with CAMS specs will make it possible for people to compete in events like around the houses, hill climbs and Tasmanian Targa type events.

Of course singe seat, 2 and 4 seat models. The chassis would all be variations on a theme which would be relatively simple to design and build.

One thing that is completely missing from the roads is the monoposto style of vehicle. Single seater cars just don't exist on the roads. I have a plan to make one based on a Beetle, mainly because it will be so unique. I wouldn't fit side entry in a monoposto model. My attitude would be, "If you don't want to climb in the roof and shut the lid, then go away. This is something special and you don't understand. Where do I fit the shopping? In the other tool box over there." LOL.

Big side entry gaps into 2 and 4 seater models is normal in sand rails anyway.

As to weather proofing it, my experience of a dune buggy in the wet is that you can't keep all of the water out, so don't try too hard, it's almost impossible to keep it all out.

I'm excited!!!

[dingobuggies]

Hi. Thanks for this. The wether protection is for the people who want them for the road mainly and want to take a trip in it somewhere and keep the luggage dry, for example but it would be removable if desired and, as you say, get into serious off roading. It has to be all things to all men (and women) which is my customer base. the plan is to make a two seater first, make it road legal, then a four seater, and do the same, and then the CAMS complient single seater. MAybe we will change things according to customer demand, ehich is the whole point of this thread, to ask you guys what is most important to you.
In short, I see the main customer as the couple who want to take off into the outback and have some fun in the buggy, maybe camp a little but dont want to drag a trailer around and don't want to go there on a bike but want a capable and inexpensive vehicle that you dont mind scratching a little but will stand up to the rigours of a rough weekend on Aussi roads that are not always covered in smooth black stuff. Pile it up with stuff, head off for a while and not worry about whether or not the car is capable of where you want to go or is too difficult to fix on the side of the road with a hammer.
Also, as you say with the race model, drive there, take off the road legal stuff (mud gaurds, indicators, etc) and race, maybe fix it a little and put the stuff back on and driv e home, no trailers or hassles.
Please keep telling me what it is you guys would buy. I am moving away from VW stuff as it is not as easy to go to the local wreckers and find but if it is based on Magna stuff, they are every where, cheap, strong and simple.
The idea came about when a friend and I were working in Qatar and we took a Toyota Landcruiser, threw away the body, made a floor, added a simple cage and drove it all over the dessert dunes. Great fun and cheap. Well, that was a big lumbering 4X4 but the idea now is lighter, cheaper, more fun and looks cool. It is the "beetle into a sand rail" for the 21st century and I see no reason why we can't make it with Rego plates too.
Thanks for this and if you want to call me on this matter, 07 3807 0383 or if you are rich, call the mobile on 0416 064775.
Thanks guys.